Vanadium carbides are among the hardest that form in steel, and chromium carbides are in between iron carbide and vanadium carbide. There is buzz out there but I havent seen anything solid yet in the world of steel. However, it is not really known how many different companies are making 8Cr13MoV (or at least I dont know), it could be that it is one manufacturer that is dominating the market. By that I dont mean that a better heat treatment is not possible, but that major mistakes in heat treating are avoided. This list is not exhaustive, so check out some of our rating tables for more information on whatever steel youre interested in. 12C27 steel is extremely popular in the US knife market for its high hardness, high wear resistance, and great corrosion resistance. This guide explains important features to consider when buying a new knife for the outdoors. Its found on a large number of traditional-style folders. And Michael Fitzgerald, Tim Marais, and Head VI for increasing their contributions. If you need something that soaks up abuse, try 3V. This doesnt necessarily mean they have terrible toughness, but they have limitations. Why does Maxamet and Rex 121 stay the same tcc but Zmax drops and 15v goes from below 900 to over? I was recommended the Rat 1 in D2 and I also found that I really like the design of the Ruike p135 and p128. 9Cr18MoV steel Review - Everything You need to Know - Materials Today You will get an ultra-sharp edge with 14C28N knives. 1. I have a bachelor's degree in Mechanical engineering with a specialization in material science. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. For this perfect size that for most tasks and the slim tip allows the knife to excel at piercing and detail work. 20? But the true calling card of INFI is its insane toughness. While 9Cr18MoV steel is highly corrosion resistant due to the addition of Cr, and Mo. 14C28N VS D2 Attributes: 14c28n: D2 . I would also suggest adding a hardness rating to the ratings tables that currently include toughness, edge retention, and corrosion resistance ratings. LC200N has similar properties to those two but with saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. Sorry about the misinformation. My other knives are a Real Steel E77 8cr14mov. Monday-Friday See the chart below showing 52100 steel that was overaustenitized (unintentionally) by a knifemaker that sent me specimens for toughness testing. The 14C28N, on the other hand, is tougher. In addition, According to Sandvik, 14C28N steel is easy to work on, reducing production costs and hence affordable knives. Hi Larrin Your estimate of 420HCs corrosion resistance is different here than in your October, 2019 post on corrosion resistance testing: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14/corrosion-resistance-testing/ 14C28N, designed by Sandvik at Kershaw's behest to have the edge properties of 13C26 but with increased corrosion resistance by adding nitrogen and chromium. Now that we know what each factor represents, we can see how the steels rank against one another. while its a very intuitive method and a simple way to e.g. Which one is right for you? Only a few years ago Elmax was pricey, but competition has driven it down to reasonable levels, making it a decent value. What about K390? But its very cheap, and, when ground appropriately, it can be a real winner from a value standpoint. Note that corrosion is detrimental for the cutting edge. blue steel rex 121 Manage Settings 8Cr13MoV vs D2 Steel what's the difference? - Honey Badger Knives I mean the box cutter type, with the replaceable trapezoidal blades. Nitro V is also significantly cheaper than many other steels with this level of performance. For example, D2 has enough chromium to be stainless (~12%) but its high carbon means that too much chromium carbide is formed to leave enough chromium for stainless levels of corrosion resistance. Is there some way we might predict the relative "effective toughness" of different steels at different hardness and at different edge angles? It doesnt hold an edge well, but its so easy to sharpen that you can get it back to razor sharpness in a few minutes. The unique process used to make LC 200N results in a fine-grain structure. CPM 4V By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. 14C28N steel is the improved version of 13C26 with better rust resistance. Even though it has very high hardness, its also still decently resistant to corrosion and quite tough. I actually dont recommend that enthusiasts spend all that much time analyzing the exact composition of different steels and trying to guess their properties. I test corrosion resistance of steels by heat treating 1 x 1.5 inch coupons, finishing to about 400 grit, and then spraying with water. I've heard d2 is miles better and i dont want to pay 90 for the p135 and get a significantly inferior blade to paying 110 for the D2 Rat. Steels do come at various price points, however, depending on the cost of producing them and the cost for the knife company to work with them. 1) the cvn number is just that, a number. The most significant cost increase comes from powder metallurgy, used to create most of the expensive knife steels. This is a virtually stain-proof steel suitable for all sorts of aquatic environments. 14c28n steel has a high Chromium and Carbon percentage. second it might be of importance which way you sharpened because if against the edge the steels might have reacted differently to the contamination remaining on the edge. D2 is a high carbon, high chromium die steel and is the highest carbon alloy tool and die steel typically used in knife making. Does that mean that companies like Tops, Kabar and ESEE would be better off using 420HC instead of 1095 on their fixed blades? I guess the question is whether toughness increases faster than edge retention decreases. Each test is done with 3 or more specimens to get a good average. This refers to the angle of your edge and the thickness of the knife behind the edge. 14C28N is essentially AEB-L (or perhaps more accurately Sandvik 13C26), but with improved corrosion resistance. It boasts an incredible ability to continue cutting long after it seems dull. And its not made of steel. 14C28N and D2 steel are not the same. Here, we will discuss edge retention, toughness, ease of sharpening, and corrosion resistance. Wear resistance comes from hardness and carbides, hard particles formed between carbon and another element like Vanadium or Tungsten. imo o lot depends on how the blade is sharpened. And for high toughness you want little or no carbide. The best knife for you should meet your needs and fit your budget. D2 knives offer higher edge retention than 14C28N knives, which is attributed to the high carbon elements and hardness of D2. It is most useful for steels with large amounts of carbide but also helps to be able to add certain carbide types. 9Cr is the top end of the series and is quite good as good or better than AUS-8. However, even steel with the best corrosion resistance can rust without proper care. The study of steel is now so complex and nuanced that one can acquire a graduate degree in the subject and still learn new things every day. 9cr18MOV or D2? | BladeForums.com 14C28N steel is as a result of a more corrosion resistant version of the 13C26 steel. XHP is an exceptionally well-balanced steel with excellent all-around attributes. CPM154 is a truly superior steel. Notice that with the same edges on the same media, the 9Cr18Mov from Real Steel performs about as well as the average Chinese D2. The hardness of the carbides does not matter much unlike with edge retention. 14C28N Vs D2 . Steel with high wear resistance is more costly to manufacture, as the knife company goes through more abrasives to grind the knives. Even premium steels can have poor performance with poor heat treatment. That old pine in particular is some crazy hard stuff. These two knives are a little bit more than a pretty face. I can also say from personal experience that marine grade plywood will chaw up your saw blade and battery a lot quicker than standard plywood, but that probably says more about the glue that was used than the wood. One of the more common stainless steels, and one readily available in lots of different places worldwide, AUS-8 is a decent all-around steel. Ah ok that wasnt mentioned. What it is: 14C28N is a Sandvik stainless steel commonly used in razors and kitchen knives. However, this edge retention comes at the cost of sharpening ease for D2. So hard vanadium carbides means you get more edge retention for a given amount of carbide. Some steels are more difficult to manufacture for the steel company or have more expensive alloying elements so the cost is increased. Hammering through hickory, digging at roots in sandy soil, and cutting around bone did nothing to chip, dent, or roll the edge of my 3V knives. Fix-It Sticks Compact Ratcheting Multi-Tool Review, Toughness, Wear Resistance, Corrosion Resistance. 14C28N and D2 knives are affordable high-end knives. This is a nitrogen steel that is extremely corrosion-resistant so much so that its used in knives designed to go in salt water, among the most difficult conditions knives are used in. Top quality steel yields perfect toughness, edge retention, wear and corrosion resistance, an easy to sharpen, long lasting and durable everyday carry that will fast become a user favorite. Theres also a line of green triangles a bit below that. As to a difference between 8.6 and 8.5, all of the ratings here are rounded to the nearest 0.5 because better than that probably shows false precision. The Sandvik 14C28N has a very thin and sharp blade that is perfect for slicing through things. It's like the difference between average 420HC and Buck's 420HC with the Bos heat treatment, only from a better starting point. Many knife enthusiasts are concerned with categorizing steels as excellent, good, poor, etc. Its OK to be a steel snob, but keep in mind that you dont have to if you want a good knife. Austenitizing is the process where the steel is heated to high temperature prior to quenching (rapid cooling) to harden the steel. Advantages: Toughness, edge retention. In real life, would you expect any presumed increase in deviation from the specified formula, as well as the effects of said deviation, to negatively impact the performance of 8Cr13MoV to any truly noticeable degree? If you look at the chart you may notice that at high toughness levels if you increase edge retention by only a relatively small amount you get very big drops in toughness. A European powder-metal steel used in higher-end knives, Elmax has an advanced formula, and the result is a very good all-around steel, a generation ahead of formulations like 154CM. I have a couple questions, not directly related to this specific post, that I wanted to ask publically so that others could find your responses as well, so here seemed as good a place as any. They differ little in composition and treatment. Approximately the same hardness, yes. It can dull your edge, cause pitting, and damage the structural integrity of your knife. False treatment and geometry upheld by Made in USA is like buying 8Cr from China (except late A.G) My personal experience tops with Vanadis 4E, CPM-M4, RWL-34 and the likes. Even people that are aware of your work still do knife rankings and pass them off as steel rankings. . However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. Take a look at this edge retention test. I have a Spyderco K390 knife and I cut leather with it as it is only .090 thick and I seldom have to strop it on 1 micron diamond compound on leather. 420HC, 420, and 5160 all offer off-the-charts toughness. Actually, Id be thinking 14C28N, but I want to leave stainless out. There are a few other complicating factors such as carbon in solution and plate martensite, especially in low alloy steels such as described in this article. If you're stuck between 14C28N and 440C, here's a breakdown of the pros and cons of each type of steel. Its high hardness and relatively high toughness also make it an excellent choice in cutlery. 1.4116 can you strike twice as fast with the knife? 8cr13mov if proper slicing geometry its good budget steel if you dont rust it and no prying or screwing its ok cutting steel. Instead, Vargo titanium uses a unique material called sintered titanium-ceramic alloy. 1.4116 got a 2.5 for toughness and edge retention where as 420HC got a 9 for toughness and a 2.5 for edge retention. While some are into that type of thing, if youre familiar with a specific steel and want to compare it with another, you should definitely click on that button below. High Speed steels are a subset that have significant additions of Mo and/or W that makes them resist softening when they are used for machining operations. Is 14c28n Steel Good For Knives? A Complete Guide - Knife Pulse S45VN What makes 1.4116 such a bad performer in regards to toughness on par with ultra high carbide steel like S125V? Its an update of its 12C27 and 13C26 steels, which were developed for use in shaving razors. This is to keep the focus on the elements that are making the biggest difference. A2 Knife Steel Air-hardened tool steel. One important concept I want to hammer home is that there isnt one property that is most important. Dr. Thomas is a friend of ours here at Blade HQ, and with his help, weve worked to create this knife steel guide. Toughness 3, Edge Ret 8, Cor Res 4? So what is the best steel for knives? Find your right answers here! The big difference in properties vs the low alloy steels, however, are the harder carbides that are found in these steels. 14C28N is a stainless steel that was developed specifically for use in knives. my understanding is that wood is not a particularly abrasive material and a plane is more of a push cut action than a slicing action so I would have though edge stability and sharpness is more important than edge retention meaning ABE-L should work pretty well. and our Thanks to its very high hardness (64-66 HRc compared to the average of 58-62 HRc), ZDP-189 can be ground thinner and sharpened less often. 9cr18mov vs 14c28n. Hello LARRIN, do you have a Rough estimate on when ApexUltra (as well as more Magnacut) will become available? https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/03/cryogenic-part1/ 52100 and CruForgeV are good for general purpose knives. The D2, on the other hand, has a thicker and more durable blade that is better suited for tough tasks like chopping wood or prying open cans. Extra kudos for your mathmatical steel composition to edge holding model thats really impressive work. They were two different tests (different batch of steel, different person heat treating, etc). D2 knives, on the other hand, are challenging to sharpen. However, D2 steel has better edge retention, while 14C28N offers a better sharpening experience. D2 steel is a ordinary tool steel and knife steel. In particular, I have found the ESEE/Rowen 1095 to be less likely to chip and better at holding an edge than the KA-BAR version even in knives with the same role, thickness, and blade length. great work, larrin. Mostly it has been presented piecemeal with all of the studies that we have done on optimizing heat treatments of different steels like CPM-CruWear, AEB-L, 52100, etc. Interesting. While not a powder steel, 154CM is widely used in nicer knives. Its so high in hardness that Maxamet knives usually ship with desiccating packages. These steels favor edge retention over all else. Being stainless is not an on or off property, and some stainless steels are more resistant to corrosion than others. the following is not a critique, just a few thoughts to maybe put the relationships into a wider perspective and point to additional dimensions. Its hard to imagine a more rust-inducing environment than saltwater and fish guts. Looks like there is no reason to us it over 420HC. How Is 14C28N Steel for Knives? Thank you. Youre right I had to check my spreadsheet. It isnt impossible, but contrast may not be very good and the austenitizing temperatures of the two steels arent very compatible. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. VG 10 Steel, https://knifebasics.com/author/freelancer/, How To Choose Between The 14C28N And The D2, 14c28n Steel Is Good for Knife? Wear resistance, be it high or low, is the most significant determining factor in ease of sharpening. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/17/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-3/. Here, read on for an in-depth look at common knife steels as well as the best knife steels around. It was your original article on ratings that brought me to knifesteel nerds so its great to see your results put back into a form that will no doubt be distributed \ plagiarized widely, hopefully leading to more rational thought and better understanding by the knife consuming public (not that the misleading marketing will go away). Is that regression line (or other trend line?) The D2 knife blade offers high edge retention and wear resistance. I was the heat treater, but after HT to only 58-59 hardness the blades went to the surface grinders for finishing and I remember them going into the packing boxes with mirror polished edges. I believe they are made of simple carbon steel. Spyderco has produced several production knives with Maxamet, and the steel debuted on the ZT0888. The 10V specimens tempered at 1000F were 4-5 ft-lbs while the specimens tempered at 4-500F were 7-8 ft-lbs. 14c28n | Civivi Like S90V, its a high-hardness steel, but its more balanced than S90V. FRN Kershaw, Spyderco and Schrade are among some of the popular users of this steel.. 14C28N. These steels are perfect for thin edges and high hardness. They are usually chosen for their looks rather than performance. Developed by New Jersey Steel Baron, Nitro V is a non-powder steel marketed as an enhanced version of AEB-L. Nitro V, as its name indicates, adds nitrogen to AEB-Ls formula to make the steel even more corrosion-resistant. There are a lot of different types of steel out there . This is a non-powder steel produced by American steel company Carpenter. If you are a newbie to steel knives and the differences are not yet clear, come with us to the next section as we look into each knifes characteristics, pros, and cons. When the blade gets messed up I just replace it. Give it a couple of weeks, and feedback will start pouring in. In other words, Rex 121 would be the most difficult to sharpen and 5160 and 8670 would be the easiest. Using 10 dps sharpening (20 degrees inclusive on the chart) leads to about 5x the edge retention of 25 dps. Its not a regression line, it is just a line through the best steels. We did the research to help you find the best hunting knife for your needs and budget. Privacy Policy. And Mn and Si isnt shown at all for the high alloy steels, even though those elements are added to all of them. The 8Cr13MoV vs D2 debate. Wusthof Classic Ikon 8-Inch Cooks Knife Review, Victorinox Fibrox Straight Edge Chefs Knife Review, What is Cts bd1 steel? Steels without these attributes are much less costly. I just want to thank you for all the work you do for the community and the world at large. The only thing putting me off immediately buying the p135 is the 14c28n steel. The hardenable grade of titanium (Beta C Titanium) reaches up to 45 or so rc. As wear resistance is increased the differences between conventional and powder metallurgy steels become greater. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.
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