If so, you will be instructed to submit a plea by post. I was facedwith the prospect of receiving a hefty fine and a criminal record. Extra induced trips by a switch to 0 from 0.5 a trip, are of course relatively more often going to be new 0.8 km trips than 15 km long. in Paris the faregates made crowd control worse in the World Cup victory celebrations. Doing this by encouraging wasteful use and monthly passes makes no sense (and often the logic behind it is flawed and empirically incorrect). German railways has worked over the past decade or longer? That is a ridiculous and misleading claim. TFL Fare evasion prosecution | RailUK Forums This was a great result and I could not be more grateful. Even the Tokyo MEA which is just municipalities with 10% commuting into the 23 Wards is a ton of wilderness, as wilderness area is included in municipal borders (zero unincorporated land, all wilderness belongs to a municipality administratively). In Europe there are usually other societal goals for public transport than just fiscal efficiency. R.H August (2018), I would definitely recommend BSB Solicitors. Prosecutions act as a deterrent, in theory discouraging others from evading their fares. The Special Settlement Conference Even the Brits who have had to contend with such systems their entire life, get immensely irritated by it. As someone with a lot at stake and was extremely anxious about the outcome of my case, the final result was better than what I was expecting. 2) BART has had teen-gang problems, where a dozen kids hop the fare gates, rob/assault the passengers, and leave en-mass at the next stop over the gates before any law enforcement appears. I am very pleased with the conclusion of my case. Its really self-enforcing and does not need the extremely irritating British price-engineering. Because the truth is that ANYONE will fare evade, its just for these people it is a conscious (or almost-conscious) act based on a bunch of questions they are running through in their head:. I seriously doubt the London system could, however I hope they have learned lessons from the Kings Cross fire disaster. The norm here is that big cities fund urban rail out of fares; the U-Bahn breaks even here, and I think also in Munich. Not least, via job access. You are thinking of financial performance rather than transit performance. Compared to other major European countries, commuting costs take up a considerably larger amount of workers pay (Table 1). In the case of rail commutes, for example, 2.6 billion would return to the pockets of commuters should the scheme be fully rolled out. Most importantlyI got the result that I wanted! In such cities monthly passes do barely exist, and cities aim for a fair and efficient pricing system. because of Chile, but it goes back further than that) isnt great. > However, again one should compare the compact arrangement of Ile de France versus what happens with Japan & Tokyos laissez-faire development policies. James provided an excellent service and put his excellent knowledge to help me get the best results in something that could have effected my whole professional and personal life in the UK. On the other hand, the short single trip, for a person without a monthly pass, will be unreasonably expensive, for example creating cruel incentives for poor people to walk for 25 minutes in the rain, instead of taking a bus 6 stops. I imagine the Ring here breaks even too and the subsidies go to the branches in the suburbs. Efficiency is usually both environmental and fair. Transport for London cannot give any advice with regard to completing the forms or on how you should proceed. The cost burden of commuting is unevenly and unethically distributed amongst the beneficiaries of this utility. Monthly passes indeed encourage transit use, but thats not wasteful. Its technically still a crime in Germany and repeat offenders Especially those who cannot pay do end up in jail. My single ticket to Windermere cost about $A200; by comparison, I can travel from Sydneys Central Station to Bomaderry on NSWs South Coast (a three hour journey, as is Windermere from London) for $2.50 on my seniors Opal Card. It was an absolute dream if you lived in Paris. Cities in both Germany and France, for example, are even trialling free public transport, with huge increases in passenger rates recorded.9 Paris has one-way faregates, so half the exit space is unusable during (one-way) busy times, and the exit gates are hard to open and easy to close in order to discourage fare dodging. The German-speaking world, as irrational as Britain and France about urban crime rates that are far lower than they were a generation ago, still treats the train and bus rider as a law-abiding customer unless proven otherwise. Have you noticed that the new boss of SNCF, Jean-Pierre Farandou, was formerly boss of French Keolis? All real growing transit cities (in Europe, North America and Asia) will (and do) eventually face capacity constraints and to solve them a lot of new concrete and tunnelling is then always necessary. I wasimmediately madeto feel at ease at our first meeting and they always provided very clear instructions and advice throughout our email communications. The only thing predictable about the service is that its always awful: the train you want is odds-on to be late or cancelled. worst., So ALL you can do with habituals is catch them doing it and (where possible) fine em or throw the law at them. Instead of developing an open system, they created an opaque Key farecard that offers many benefits to those who can afford it and severely penalizes those without it. Finally, as to user satisfaction, you may well be correct if youre talking of the Brits/Londoners. Its about whether its fair to impose essentially middle-class bourgeois standards of behavior on public transit systems. Sounds miserlyalmost Britishcompared to Paris. They Plus, when its late at night and my phone battery is dying and Im worried about getting inspected (since my monthly pass is on my phone), reasonably bourgeois people tell me not to worry because in practice there are no inspections late at night. Taken to court by TFL for fare evasion under contrary to byelaw 17. These are the exact opposite of your econometric analysis. Share this conversation Expert: Patrick;Lawyer replied 1 year ago. And it does an appalling job. Instead of forever delaying spending money today for appropriate infrastructure that will serve the city for ages, they have constantly convinced themselves and the politicians they can play these games with the travelling public. In smaller operations, I actually encountered that the driver just counted the number of people getting on and off (well, that was in a midi bus, or even smaller one. Settling case out of court (fare evasion) | RailUK Forums I discussed the situation initially over the phoneand then met at the BSB office in Central London. Rachel Goetzmann, et al., Plaintiffs, vs. Domestic - Minnesota A big reason why many Americans would prefer to spend an hour in traffic rather than 30 minutes on a bus or train ir s that they dont want to deal with ill-behavior on the subway. This skewed thinking has meant that substantial financial burdens are being placed upon commuters (not to mention the public at large) whilst other beneficiaries of commuting (employers) are not contributing to its financing. Of course efficiency is important but it is not achieved by those approaches, no matter how theory predicts it. Its only wasteful if people are taking unnecessary rush hour trips, but even with the pricing of Zurich or the outer fare zones in Stockholm, the monthly pass is mostly subsidizing off-peak trips, when theres spare capacity. I am of course talking about transit performance in how to move the largest amount of people at the lowest cost for the transit users and taxpayers. I understand why a transfer station should look like this, but Singapore has these enormous complexes with mezzanines even at non-transfer stations. Poor policing, public housing with anti social tennants etc etc, So spare me the must not have moral standards dictated to from the rich, because that includes you. This report puts forward a relatively simple Claim the Commute scheme as a solution to this problem. Thoughts on Planka.nu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planka.nu) and similar movements/organizations? If you do But thats Fare Evasion 201. long-term transit passes are for travel between an exact combination of two stations only, and are essentially useless for anything besides commuting. In talking to Americans about fare evasion, I have found that they are generally receptive to the idea of minimizing revenue loss net of collection costs. I hired BSB firm to represent me in a TfL fare case in October 2018. And in general is entirely counterproductive. Webtfl fare evasion settle out of court. Since racial identification is supposed to not occur in official stats. BUT, this is expensive. Please see our reviews at the bottom of this page and contact our office on 020 7837 3456 for further details and to make an appointment. Of course, you can ask for transit to be free, and investments budgets to be endless, but that is not a very constructive approach to solve real-world problems. The outcome is predictably polarization and is just as disastrous here as for any other dimension of US public services. Seattle uses a third way of incentivizing monthlies, in addition to low-income fare discounts and relatively affordable monthly passes; 3) The San Francisco stations have public areas before the gates. Eighty six percent of people in the UK do not fully understand the rules on rail penalty fares, and as a result and could have criminal sanctions made on them inappropriately, according to BSB Solicitors national survey. My other point is that Monthly or Annual Travel Passes are increasingly old news in the UK as Pay as you go with far capping is more popular, and also because 5 days a week commuting is on the decline. the Albtalbahn before it was converted to tram-train. Londons fare capping system is weekly rather than monthly there are no monthly passes, and all fares are set at very high levels. Whereas today the program is a net revenue generator if it halves subway fare evasion, a level that already seems strained, within ten years, assuming normal fare escalation, it will need to cut fare evasion by about 90%, which is a complete fantasy. OK, youve nit-picked one thing from that report. A TFL fare evasion solicitor can intervene at this stage by writing a detailed letter of representation on your behalf, arguing that a prosecution would not be in the Its empire stretches from Peterborough to Tonbridge to Bognor Regis and Brighton. This really an area where the West should take lessons from Asia (though far integration, which is lacking in some Asian countries should of course still be encouraged). And it makes you feel that you own the city (or the IdF). As far as I understand, in Japan it is common (maybe even law) that the employer pays for the passes of their employees. Your argument against which kind of trips that are induced by marginal price costs of 0, just makes no sense. A different argument against monthly passes is that be encouraging heavy rather than occasional (mixed with biking and walking) use of transit, it encourages large geographical sprawl. I was worried he would bring the awful British views of public transit to the job, and sure enough, an extraordinary focus on fares and fare-evasion, increased policing and compliance, just couldnt be more wrong. In fact, I think most US cities should be fareless anyway since their farebox contribution to revenue is so low. Stores dont have gates. Because it reduces maintenance costs and eliminates a serious bottleneck to pedestrian throughput, and I dont think systems with faregates have lower fare evasion rates than systems with POP. Look at the fare compliance b.s. These costs are financial, environmental and also pertain to health and wellbeing. And incidentally I totally reject your repeated assertion that low fares, or flat fares, to the outer zones of big cities, encourages sprawl, because it does the opposite (it will encourage TOD around the stations) and is much more likely to entice them out of their cars. Learn how your comment data is processed. Change). As an operator you want monthly passes because people who have a pass are more likely to use your system in off hours when it is cheapest for you to provide service. Yes, though my employer (in as much as they paid my salary since a lot of the time I was on fellowship, ie. Singapore has no season passes at all. Seattle recently abolished off-peak fares for one transit operator because occasional riders found the fare structure overly complex and it was dissuading usage. Or maybe it is part of a longer-term game by Pecresse and conservatives to kill the VT which was made more ubiquitous by Mitterrand (the Chevnement law). BSB Solicitors are regulated by the Solicitors I dont know if the employer paid for the rest (or whatever the discounted price was). Visitors would be on app based daily or weekly passes. Solano Verde Water District. Im going to argue that imposing middle class bourgeois standards of behavior on public transit systems Is very important if you want them to exist and for more people to use them. For example, some fringe party that wont make it to the Abgeordnetenhaus has election posters promising 30 monthlies, down from 86 today; BVG fare revenue was 766.3M in 2019, and the reduction, around 500M/year, is similar in scope to the size of the ongoing investment plan, around 2 km of city center subway or 3 km of suburban subway; the Berlin map I just posted has 24 km of new tunnel inside the Ring (ex-S21 bits already under construction) and 32 outside, so fare reduction subsidies are in competition with such expansion and should not be pursued. But yeah, the moralistic response on the left of treating fare evasion as something good (esp. Mistakes happen; Ive accidentally fare-dodged in Berlin twice, only realizing the error at the end of the trip. Germany is known for stereotypically being law-abiding, I am not sure how well their experience generalizes. Whats more, the fare inspection should be a low-key affair. Its probably best to see if your Powers-That-Be ever manage to get past Fare Evasion Kindergarten first before doing that. How did you come up with M16s?? However, again one should compare the compact arrangement of Ile de France versus what happens with Japan & Tokyos laissez-faire development policies. So there is, or at least was, that kind of enforcement on this issue. Yeah, but dont confuse yourself or others. AR15 is what you mean. in Niigata with Tanaka using both to molify Tsubame-Sanjo divisions. As they push out, all non-frequent transit users, the support among transit-users for monthly passes is understandably high (a typical insider-outsider issue). Tfl fare evasion :/ : r/london - reddit.com Not just because its important to get all the revenue you can, but if its easy to fare evade then everyone will do it as, no one really sees it as a crime in their own minds. The bottom line of the Pew study is that commuters who are able to use the Key pay one of the lowest per-trip costs among major transit agencies, while those who cant are forced to pay one of the highest fares a particularly egregious example of what many economists call the poor tax. In the summer, Governor Cuomo announced a new initiative to hire 500 cops to patrol the subway. 70% of department 77 Seine-et-Marne) and has huge forests and national parks (eg. I imagine Stockholm looked elsewhere than Germany in the 1950s? I am sure you are aware that there is a large perception bias about such things due to bias in reporting by media etc. London has monthly / yearly travelcards, but not on the capping system you have to pre-purchase them and theyre valid for the month / year. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_Settlement_Plan. (No doubt, partly econometric because of the cost-benefit calculation of replacing their antiquated coin-op turnstiles with something modern.). London generally gives off an impression of treating everyone who is not a Daily Mail manager as a criminal. At 20 km the single fare is $1.78 and the breakeven point is 68, which means the monthly might as well not exist. It may be possible to have some legal advice without charge. After a brief waiting period, I received good news that the representations made were considered proportionate to a warning and a fine only. I was quickly directed to Mr Black who successfully plead my case and saved my professional carer! You know what you pay, and you wont get any surprises. Fare is split between the different agencies. In the vast majority of cities, no excuse exists to have any kind of overt fare control. I suppose one possible rationale is that in other old, established countries most people consider their nation to be their ancestral home, and so resent interlopers (and contrive to keep them poor & marginalised), while in the New World, almost everyone knows they come from somewhere else in relatively recent history, and it is accepted norm that the new arrivals will quickly integrate just like all of us have done. That requires enforcement exercises, which are expensive. It is very likely that your employer paid some part, and, depending on the size of the enterprise, it is a discount. What a wonderful system! I really appreciate it. For the thousands working on an employment pass, youre out of luck. That Britain thinks monthly passes are old news does not mean that they really are old news. So the police can nab them for that at the same time. This would be different from London, where Underground makes a sizable profit, and Overground about breaks even. In Paris on the RER I cant tell I believe its three figures of which the first is a 1. Let me grab my laptop and a beer from the hotel bar and Ill do a quickly summary of findings., Okay. They cant be expected to behave they know no better. Caltrain has an unlimited annual GoPass (http://www.caltrain.com/Fares/tickettypes/GO_Pass.html) they only make available to large employers, who must pay based on total eligible employee headcount and not actual employee usage. This thread has been locked by the moderators of r/LegalAdviceUK. 3) Lost revenue from passengers avoiding system due to crime can be inferred via a safety survey. since New Yorkers ride off-peak so much less than Parisians. 2) They think its cool They claim such abuse could be costing the government hundreds of million in long term. Writing a letter of representations offering to settle out of court so as to prevent prosecution. I wouldnt say that, most people are commuting from the suburbs to the center city, so on weekends the pass can be used to visit the center for shopping, cultural events, etc, not to mention any intermediate destinations along the route. The agencies could then negotiate a split based on that data (or based on anything, really). Exactly. Also, since you can technically board a tram with good intentions, if the ticket machine is full of cash already (or has a defect) you even have a good excuse. If you want to do an apples to apples comparison go find satellite data and use it. At lot depends on whether one looks at the public transport system in isolation or as part of the whole transport system or part of society in general. Sometimes the police are called. (slightly out of date; too lazy to update): > The norm here is that big cities fund urban rail out of fares; the U-Bahn breaks even here, and I think also in Munich. Theres something interesting going on with Chesa Boudins campaign: he wants to decriminalize quality-of-life crimes (okay) and deprioritize prosecuting theft and redirect resources to prosecuting sexual assault (prioritize violent crime) and train cops to be more responsive to victims. In the West inevitably it is exploited until the pips squeak . You specifically dont want discounts on tolls, though the point of tolling is to discourage car traffic, e.g. TFL Fare evasion prosecution | RailUK Forums. We're pleased to announce the launch of our new booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk, which helps Thelawyer who dealt with my caseput me at ease straight aware and was professional throughout my consultation. Heres (below) the usual b.s. And London. Tear down these faregates. Your use of induced implies travellers think how they can rack up long extended trips just because they dont cost anything! The greater sprawl is mostly because Tokyo is the larger capital of the larger country, with more than triple the population of Paris in terms of metro area. And probably linked in to ICE. We are seeing more an more examples of clients being summoned to court over unpaid fares of as little as 1.50. Whats a little food poisoning now and then? At the end of the day they are more affected by a shitty public environment than the wealthy who can retreat to their upper middle class bubbles and not have to deal with the antisocial. Very clearly, a growing activist community wants to eliminate these standards, favoring total decriminalization not just of fare evasion, but of unlicensed vending, panhandling on trains, public urination, pot smoking, radio playing, etc. have been recorded, including against people with mental disability trying to validate their ticket with their disability discount count, with fare inspector questioning authenticity of the disabled passengers proof of disability, and MTR have defended these actions by saying they are allowed to use reasonable violence against those who suspected to have violated their bylaw. Ill try and post some of the tweets John Bull made about fare evasion when talking to Second Avenue Subways. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns. TFL Fare Evasion I see this as just an additional argument for lower fares off-peak. TfL will only be getting costs in court (120), they will be making probably twice that setting out of court and will do less work to get it or even more if people offer to pay You must submit a plea of guilty or not guilty within 21 days from the date of the notice. Which makes cheating extremely easy. There are various statistical ways of determining how much each agency should receive of that monthly pass. Is it a trip possible by biking or walking? TFL Fare Evasion - Due in Court - HELP! Here is an argument for the 45-swipes threshold. Except for the occasional hospitalization or death. Yeah, this makes sense. I dont think that pass existed until recently. Trains and trams are also PoP. Passed a law to forbid one penny of government money going toward Eurostar or HS1 (part of the reason it took 12 years after Eurostar began, and turned into one of the textbook cases of PPP/PFI gone wrong). If the next one is running, its so crammed you cant get on. Say a 25% discount on each trip after 20 trips, and a 50% discount after 35 trips. And that should coincide with a transition of everything to a paid model, with app-based day/weekly passes.
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